From these scriptures we learn that there were about three hundred souls who saw and heard much; the Holy Spirit of God did enter into their hearts; they were filled as if with fire; they could speak forth marvelous words; a pleasant voice whispered, saying: Peace, peace be unto you; angels came down out of heaven and ministered unto them.
My question is: “How could three hundred souls be baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost and know it not? How do people know when they've been baptized by fire?”
“And it came to pass that when they cast their eyes about, and saw that the cloud of darkness was dispersed from overshadowing them, behold, they saw that they were encircled about, yea every soul, by a pillar of fire.
And Nephi and Lehi were in the midst of them; yea, they were encircled about; yea, they were as if in the midst of a flaming fire, yet it did harm them not, neither did it take hold upon the walls of the prison; and they were filled with that joy which is unspeakable and full of glory.
And behold, the Holy Spirit of God did come down from heaven, and did enter into their hearts, and they were filled as if with fire, and they could speak forth marvelous words.
And it came to pass that there came a voice unto them, yea, a pleasant voice, as if it were a whisper, saying:
Peace, peace be unto you, because of your faith in my Well Beloved, who was from the foundation of the world.
And now, when they heard this they cast up their eyes as if to behold from whence the voice came; and behold, they saw the heavens open; and angels came down out of heaven and ministered unto them.
And there were about three hundred souls who saw and heard these things; and they were bidden to go forth and marvel not, neither should they doubt” Helaman 5:43-49.
“Behold, it was the faith of Nephi and Lehi that wrought the change upon the Lamanites, that they were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost” Ether 12:14.
“And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not” 3 Nephi 9:20.
You should be asking Heavenly Father your questions, not the world or general public. You are sowing seeds of doubt instead of faith. Questions are good, but using the right source.
ReplyDeleteHi Brittney, It's good to hear from you. This blog is a record of our family's journey. These are some of the questions we have for God. Answers show up in many places. The correct answer is always accompanied by a witness from the Holy Ghost.
DeletePerhaps it wasn't the fact that they weren't aware that they had been baptized with fire, so much as the fact that maybe they just didn't understand what had happened.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the wording, "they knew it not," referred to the fact that they didn't know how it had come about, it was a strange and mysterious event. They most definitely would have known something had happened, so they had to have known it had. Perhaps it wasn't as we interpolate as being a quiet, undetected event when we interpret the words to mean that it came upon them unaware, unbeknownst to them.. But that they it was so amazing they didn't understand how it had come about. Language is so strange and can be ambiguous and cause us to miss the mark in seeing what is really being said. Perhaps in the writing process of engraving the record on metal plates, it would have been too lengthy to describe all the feelings that went with the baptism of fire with so many people, so it was much
simpler to say they "knew it not." We must compare all the different ways "knew" is used, and then we can see what "knew it not," really means.
They might have known something had happened, but didn't know what it was that had happened. I have read accounts like this from people who had this happen to them, and had to search the scriptures for a long time to figure out what had taken place.
ReplyDeleteI've pondered on this scripture, off and on, as I've compared it to the words of church leaders who have said that the baptism of fire happens a little at a time. From everything I've studied in scripture, it is a very outstanding and particular event. Not a gradual process.
ReplyDeleteThe BoF is an unmistakable event, as evident in scripture and from those who have experienced the cleansing as if by fire.
In the scripture in 3 Ne 9:20 Jesus is telling the people that whoso comes unto him with a broken heart and contrite spirit will be baptized withe fire and with the Holy Ghost, "even as the Lamanites because of their faith" in him at the time of their conversion.
He is telling them that it was because of their faith in him that the BoF happened. That fact was what they knew not. They apparently were so humble they didn't recognize that it was their great faith in Christ that brought it about.
As it has been said by others here,in so many words.
The humble Lamanites who apparently saw their sinfulness, didn't understand that it was their faith that Christ could remove their sins, that brought about the baptism of fire.
Not that it happened so subtly--as church leaders are wont to teach us--that they didn't even detect the change.
How absurd to think such a cleansing would go unnoticed. There would be no purpose if one did not recognize the cleansing that produced a mighty change of heart.
The key to have the baptism of fire is to arrive at the point where one is able to have one's heart truly broken at the recognition of one's sins, and have enough faith as to lay them all at Christ's feet, holding back nothing.
It is not a little repenting here and a little there, as I understand, that produces the mighty change.
It is the mighty
struggling in the spirit, or supernal faith in Christ that he will remove all sin from you that brings it about.