We
do not talk of those sacred interviews that qualify the servants of
the Lord to bear a special witness of Him, for we have been commanded
not to do so. But we are free, indeed, we are obliged, to bear that
special witness…. I am a witness to the truth that Jesus is the
Christ, the Son of God, the Only Begotten of the Father; that He has
a body of flesh and bone; that He knows those who are His servants
here and that He is known of them. I know that He directs this Church
now, as He established it then, through a prophet of God. In the name
of Jesus Christ, amen Boyd
K. Packer, April 1980
Do
not mistake our reverent hesitation to speak glibly or too frequently
of Him to mean that we do not know Him. Our brethren of Judah knew
Him in ancient times, our brethren of Ephraim also. He is no stranger
to His Saints, to His prophets and Apostles now. Boyd
K. Packer,General Conference, October 1982
I
don’t know just how to answer people when they ask the question,
‘Have you seen the Lord?’ I think that the witness that I have
and the witness that each of us [apostles] has, and the details of
how it came, are too sacred to tell. I have never told anybody some
of the experiences I have had, not even my wife. I know that God
lives. I not only know that he lives, but I know him. (Marion G.
Romney, cited in F. Burton Howard, Marion G. Romney: His Life and
Faith (Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1988), 222)
As
I've studied some of the published testimonies of Boyd K. Packer,
I've discovered some interesting things. Boyd Packer shares the
details of his call to be an LDS apostle in his October 2007 General
Conference talk The
Weak and the Simple of the Church. In his talk, he also
references Marion G. Romney's testimony.
For
a long time, something else puzzled me. Forty-six years ago I was a
37-year-old seminary supervisor. My Church calling was as an
assistant teacher in a class in the Lindon Ward.
To
my great surprise, I was called to meet with President David O.
McKay. He took both of my hands in his and called me to be one of the
General Authorities, an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve
Apostles.
A
few days later, I came to Salt Lake City to meet with the First
Presidency to be set apart as one of the General Authorities of the
Church. This was the first time I had met with the First
Presidency—President David O. McKay and his counselors, President
Hugh B. Brown and President Henry D. Moyle.
President
McKay explained that one of the responsibilities of an Assistant to
the Twelve was to stand with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as a
special witness and to bear testimony that Jesus is the Christ. What
he said next overwhelmed me: “Before we proceed to set you apart, I
ask you to bear your testimony to us. We want to know if you have
that witness.”
I
did the best I could. I bore my testimony the same as I might have in
a fast and testimony meeting in my ward. To my surprise, the Brethren
of the Presidency seemed pleased and proceeded to confer the office
upon me.
That
puzzled me greatly, for I had supposed that someone called to such an
office would have an unusual, different, and greatly enlarged
testimony and spiritual power.
It
puzzled me for a long time until finally I could see that I already
had what was required: an abiding testimony in my heart of the
Restoration of the fulness of the gospel through the Prophet Joseph
Smith, that we have a Heavenly Father, and that Jesus Christ is our
Redeemer. I may not have known all about it, but I did have a
testimony, and I was willing to learn.
I
was perhaps no different from those spoken of in the Book of Mormon:
“And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite
spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as
the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their
conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they
knew it not” (3 Nephi 9:20; emphasis added).
Over
the years, I have come to see how powerfully important that simple
testimony is. I have come to understand that our Heavenly Father is
the Father of our spirits (see Numbers 16:22; Hebrews 12:9; D&C
93:29). He is a father with all the tender love of a father. Jesus
said, “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me,
and have believed that I came out from God” (John 16:27).
Some
years ago, I was with President Marion G. Romney, meeting with
mission presidents and their wives in Geneva, Switzerland. He told
them that 50 years before, as a missionary boy in Australia, late one
afternoon he had gone to a library to study. When he walked out, it
was night. He looked up into the starry sky, and it happened. The
Spirit touched him, and a certain witness was born in his soul.
He
told those mission presidents that he did not know any more surely
then as a member of the First Presidency that God the Father lives;
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Only Begotten of the
Father; and that the fulness of the gospel had been restored than he
did as a missionary boy 50 years before in Australia. He said that
his testimony had changed in that it was much easier to get an answer
from the Lord. The Lord’s presence was nearer, and he knew the Lord
much better than he had 50 years before.
There
is the natural tendency to look at those who are sustained to
presiding positions, to consider them to be higher and of more value
in the Church or to their families than an ordinary member. Somehow
we feel they are worth more to the Lord than are we. It just does not
work that way!
It
would be very disappointing to my wife and to me if we supposed any
one of our children would think that we think we are of more worth to
the family or to the Church than they are, or to think that one
calling in the Church was esteemed over another or that any calling
would be thought to be less important . . .
As
General Authorities of the Church, we are just the same as you are,
and you are just the same as we are. You have the same access to the
powers of revelation for your families and for your work and for your
callings as we do. . .
And
so the Church moves on. It is carried upon the shoulders of worthy
members living ordinary lives among ordinary families, guided by the
Holy Ghost and the Light of Christ, which is in them.
I
bear witness that the gospel is true and that the worth of souls is
great in the sight of God—every soul—and that we are blessed to
be members of the Church. I have the witness that would qualify me
for the calling I have. I’ve had it since I met the First
Presidency those many years ago. I bear it to you in the name of
Jesus Christ, amen.
Seven
years later in General
Conference April 2014 Boyd K. Packer shares his apostolic
witness.
I
wanted a personal testimony of the gospel. I wanted to know!
During
one sleepless night, I left my tent and entered a bunker which had
been formed by lining up 50-gallon fuel drums filled with sand and
placed one on top of the other to form an enclosure. There was no
roof, and so I crawled in, looked up at the star-filled sky, and
knelt to pray.
Almost
mid-sentence it happened. I could not describe to you what happened
if I were determined to do so. It is beyond my power of expression,
but it is as clear today as it was that night more than 65 years ago.
I knew it to be a very private, very individual manifestation. At
last I knew for myself. I knew
for a certainty, for it had been given to me. After some time, I
crawled from that bunker and walked, or floated, back to my bed. I
spent the rest of the night in a feeling of joy and awe. . .
After
all the years that I have lived and taught and served, after the
millions of miles I have traveled around the world, with all that I
have experienced, there is one great truth that I would share. That
is my witness of the Savior Jesus Christ.
“And
now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is
the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
I
believe and I am sure that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and
that He lives. He is the Only Begotten of the Father, and “by him,
and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the
inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C
76:24).
I
bear my witness that the Savior lives. I know the Lord. I am His
witness. I know of His great sacrifice and eternal love for all of
Heavenly Father’s children. I bear my special witness in all
humility but with absolute certainty, in the name of Jesus Christ,
amen.
Do
you notice a difference in surety in the 2007 and 2014 testimonies?
In his 2007 testimony, why was he puzzled when his ordinary testimony
qualified if he had already received a manifestation that gave him
knowledge?
Belief
was always intended to grow into faith. Faith was always intended to
grow into knowledge. In the Book of Mormon, knowledge of the
existence of God equals being brought back into God's presence. We
use these terms haphazardly in the church. Personally, I really
don''t know too much about God because of my own experience. I
believe on the testimonies of the eyewitnesses.
The
record shows us that before the Brother of Jared has knowledge of the
Lord, he has many experiences with the Lord:
Pre-knowledge
Experiences
And
it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and
the Lord had compassion upon Jared; therefore he did not confound the
language of Jared; and Jared and his brother were not confounded.
Ether 1:35
And
it came to pass that the Lord did hear the brother of Jared, and had
compassion upon him, and said unto him: Go to and gather together thy
flocks, both male and female, of every kind; and also of the seed of
the earth of every kind; and thy families; and also Jared thy brother
and his family; and also thy friends and their families, and the
friends of Jared and their families. And when thou hast done this
thou shalt go at the head of them down into the valley which is
northward. And there will I meet thee, and I will go before thee into
a land which is choice above all the lands of the earth. And there
will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and
of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great
nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will
raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And
thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto
me. Ether 1:40-43
And
it came to pass at the end of four years that the Lord came again
unto the brother of Jared, and stood in a cloud and talked with him.
And for the space of three hours did the Lord talk with the brother
of Jared, and chastened him because he remembered not to call upon
the name of the Lord. Ether 2:14
Look
closely at how the terms belief, faith, and knowledge are used in
describing the Brother of Jared's experience.
Obtaining
Knowledge
6
And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these
words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the
stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off
the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord;
and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the
brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with
fear.
7
And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth;
and the Lord said unto him: Arise, why hast thou fallen?
8
And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I
feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had
flesh and blood.
9
And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that
I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before
me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye
could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?
10
And he answered: Nay; Lord, show thyself unto me.
11
And the Lord said unto him: Believest thou the words which I shall
speak?
12
And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for
thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.
13
And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself
unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed
from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence;
therefore I show myself unto you.
14
Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to
redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the
Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they
who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my
daughters.
15
And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for
never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are
created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the
beginning after mine own image.
16
Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and
man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear
unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the
flesh.
17
And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these
things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus
showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and
in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the
Nephites.
18
And he ministered unto him even as he ministered unto the Nephites;
and all this, that this man might know that he was God, because of
the many great works which the Lord had showed unto him.
19
And because of the knowledge of this man he could not be kept from
beholding within the veil; and he saw the finger of Jesus, which,
when he saw, he fell with fear; for he knew that it was the finger of
the Lord; and he had faith no longer, for he knew, nothing doubting.
20
Wherefore, having this perfect knowledge of God, he could not be kept
from within the veil; therefore he saw Jesus; and he did minister
unto him. Ether 3
If
you are a witness in a court, you share what you know from first hand
experience. Everything else is hearsay. Before this experience, the
Brother of Jared had belief and faith. He obtained knowledge through
his own personal manifestation of God.
Essential
details are shared in court and add credibility to a story.
Where
are the details in Boyd Packer's witness of Christ? When were the
heavens opened to him? Where did it happen? What did he see? What are
the events leading up to the manifestation? What did he receive over
65 years ago that left him without doubt? Those kind of details can
be found in the scriptures as prophets share their witness of Christ.
Joseph
Smith was in his 15th year, was confused about which church to join,
went to the woods to pray, was seized upon by the powers of darkness,
was delivered from the enemy and saw God. (Joseph Smith History 1)
Lehi
heard the prophets, prayed for his people, saw many things in the
pillar of fire, returned to his home, cast himself on his bed, was
carried away in a vision, saw the heavens open . . . (1 Nephi 1)
Nephi
- For it came to pass after I had desired to know the things that my
father had seen, and believing that the Lord was able to make them
known unto me, as I sat pondering in mine heart I was caught away in
the Spirit of the Lord, yea, into an exceedingly high mountain, which
I never had before seen, and upon which I never had before set my
foot. . . and his vision continues (1 Nephi 11-14)
The
list goes on and on. From the translator of the Book of Mormon to all
the holy prophets in the Book of Mormon we read their eyewitness
accounts. None of the circumstances surrounding their visions were the
same, yet they were special witnesses of our Lord. They had more than
a belief. They had knowledge.
David
B. Haight seems to have had such an experience. He shared his
testimony in the October
1989 General Conference. He was unconscious in the hospital when
he received his witness of Jesus Christ. Here is an excerpt from his
talk:
The
terrible pain and commotion of people ceased. I was now in a calm,
peaceful setting; all was serene and quiet. I was conscious of two
persons in the distance on a hillside, one standing on a higher level
than the other. Detailed features were not discernible. The person on
the higher level was pointing to something I could not see.
I
heard no voices but was conscious of being in a holy presence and
atmosphere. During the hours and days that followed, there was
impressed again and again upon my mind the eternal mission and
exalted position of the Son of Man. I witness to you that He is Jesus
the Christ, the Son of God, Savior to all, Redeemer of all mankind,
Bestower of infinite love, mercy, and forgiveness, the Light and Life
of the world. I knew this truth before—I had never doubted nor
wondered. But now I knew, because of the impressions of the Spirit
upon my heart and soul, these divine truths in a most unusual way.
I
was shown a panoramic view of His earthly ministry: His baptism, His
teaching, His healing the sick and lame, the mock trial, His
crucifixion, His resurrection and ascension. There followed scenes of
His earthly ministry to my mind in impressive detail, confirming
scriptural eyewitness accounts. I was being taught, and the eyes of
my understanding were opened by the Holy Spirit of God so as to
behold many things.
The
first scene was of the Savior and His Apostles in the upper chamber
on the eve of His betrayal. Following the Passover supper, He
instructed and prepared the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper for His
dearest friends as a remembrance of His coming sacrifice. It was so
impressively portrayed to me—the overwhelming love of the Savior
for each. I witnessed His thoughtful concern for significant
details—the washing of the dusty feet of each Apostle, His breaking
and blessing of the loaf of dark bread and blessing of the wine, then
His dreadful disclosure that one would betray Him.
He
explained Judas’s departure and told the others of the events soon
to take place.
Then
followed the Savior’s solemn discourse when He said to the Eleven:
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have
peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer;
I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33.)
Our
Savior prayed to His Father and acknowledged the Father as the source
of His authority and power—even to the extending of eternal life to
all who are worthy.
He
prayed, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the
only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Jesus
then reverently added:
“I
have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou
gavest me to do.
“And
now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory
which I had with thee before the world was.” (John 17:3–5.)
He
pled not only for the disciples called out from the world who had
been true to their testimony of Him, “but for them also which shall
believe on me through their word.” (John 17:20.)
When
they had sung a hymn, Jesus and the Eleven went out to the Mount of
Olives. There, in the garden, in some manner beyond our
comprehension, the Savior took upon Himself the burden of the sins of
mankind from Adam to the end of the world. His agony in the garden,
Luke tells us, was so intense “his sweat was as … great drops of
blood falling … to the ground.” (Luke 22:44.) He suffered an
agony and a burden the like of which no human person would be able to
bear. In that hour of anguish our Savior overcame all the power of
Satan.
The
glorified Lord revealed to Joseph Smith this admonition to all
mankind:
“Therefore
I command you to repent …
“For
… I, God, … suffered … for all, that they might not suffer if
they would repent; …
“Which
suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble
because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, …
“Wherefore,
I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty
power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these
punishments.” (D&C 19:15–16, 18, 20.)
During
those days of unconsciousness I was given, by the gift and power of
the Holy Ghost, a more perfect knowledge of His mission. I was also
given a more complete understanding of what it means to exercise, in
His name, the authority to unlock the mysteries of the kingdom of
heaven for the salvation of all who are faithful. My soul was taught
over and over again the events of the betrayal, the mock trial, the
scourging of the flesh of even one of the Godhead. I witnessed His
struggling up the hill in His weakened condition carrying the cross
and His being stretched upon it as it lay on the ground, that the
crude spikes could be driven with a mallet into His hands and wrists
and feet to secure His body as it hung on the cross for public
display.
Crucifixion—the
horrible and painful death which He suffered—was chosen from the
beginning. By that excruciating death, He descended below all things,
as is recorded, that through His resurrection He would ascend above
all things. (See D&C 88:6.)
After
David Haight received his vision, he shared it in the next general
conference. It was not too sacred to share. If you are called to
stand as a witness, you must witness. It would be foolish to call
upon a special witness in a court of law only for them to remain
silent.
Can
you see a difference in the following testimonies?
Boyd
Packer “If
you have stumbled or even been lost for a time, if you feel that the
adversary now holds you captive, you can move forward with faith and
not wander to and fro in the world any longer. There are those who
stand ready to guide you back to peace and security. Even the grace
of God, as promised in the scriptures, comes ‘after all we can do’
(2 Nephi 25:23). The possibility of this, to me, is the truth most
worth knowing. ” A
Witness of the Savior Jesus Christ Ensign December 2015
David
Haight
“Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for
he is full of grace and truth. Behold, he offereth himself a
sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who
have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the
ends of the law be answered.Wherefore, how great the importance to
make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they
may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of
God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy
Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh
it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the
resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.Wherefore,
he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make
intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in
him shall be saved.” (2 Ne. 2:6–9.)” October
1989 General Conference
It
is interesting they both quote Nephi near the end of their
testimonies, but the atonement of Christ seems to be understood
differently by David Haight. Boyd Packer points you to “those ready
to guide you back to peace and security.” David doesn't even
mention church leadership. “Redemption cometh in and through the
Holy Messiah . . . how great the importance to make these things
known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that
there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be
through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah.”
In
the courts, witnesses are cross examined. I had specific questions
for these men claiming to be prophets. I
wrote a letter to Dallin Oaks in 2011 and to the rest of the 14
LDS apostles in fall of 2013. They side stepped my questions and
wouldn't give me a direct answer. Boyd Packer was among the 14 men
who received my letters.
Why
did Boyd Packer change his testimony between 2007 and 2014? Why
didn't he answer my questions in 2013? In 2007 how does he describe
his witness qualifying him as an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ? In
2014 how does he describe his witness qualifying him as an apostle of
the Lord Jesus Christ?
In
2006, a book entitled The Second Comforter Conversing With the
Lord Through the Veil was
written. The author spoke from first hand experience and invited
others to come unto Christ. The author of the book wrote many other
books. In 2013, he was excommunicated from the LDS church for writing
a book which aligns the history of the LDS church with Book of Mormon
prophecy. As an LDS prophet, did Boyd K. Packer feel threatened by a
man who speaks face to face with God?
In
a court of law, the jury needs to decide which witnesses are giving a
truthful testimony. Being able to discern between true and false
messengers is essential in our walk back into the presence of God.
What
are your thoughts?
