Attendance
Louis requested to come to Women’s Council #1 but was not allowed.
One woman claimed there is a discrepancy between what she calls Denver’s advice in 2015 [Preserving the Restoration] and the Lord’s additional instructions given in 2017 [Answer to Prayer for Covenant]. Therefore, she claimed 2015 requirements do not need to be met. I will show there is no discrepancy, and that this line of reasoning was a misapplication and/or manipulation as it did not include ALL the instructions we have received to date.
Text Conversations
Saturday January 20, 4:25 a.m. Jennifer Willis to [Women Council Organizer #1] . . . I will text you the same message I gave to [Women’s Council Organizer #2]. I will also text [Women Council Member #3] this message. If there are other women on the council, in addition to the three of you, please share this message with them.
You cannot have a women's council comprised of 3 women [women’s council members listed above - at this point in time Jennifer & Louis only know the names of 3 council members]. You have to have 12 women. There is no legitimacy to Phantom women. And if you decide to revoke Louis's certificate, all of the women on the council will need to sign some type of certificate representing the outcome of the council. There is no reason to meet unless the women are willing to make their identities known.
It takes courage to be on one of these councils. I realize it is a difficult assignment. That doesn't excuse you and give you permission to remain anonymous.
I do not have an issue with you, calling a council for Louis. But we do not have secret councils, and hide our identities from the man who is being called into question. You have an obligation to tell him who is on the council. If I were Louis, I would not respond until a council of 12 women with real names comes forth with questions.
Thank you, Jennifer Willis
Saturday, Jan 20, 2024, 2:21 p.m., message from Women’s Council Member #4 forwarded to Jennifer Willis by Women’s Council Member #3: You can let Jennifer Willis know we are aware that we will need to sign our names if a unanimous decision is reached. And only then. We are not hiding. And there are 13. However there is no reason to let Lou know before the decision who was on the council. My vast experience has been that once the women’s names are out in the wind then they get bombarded by the man and his friends trying to coerce them into deciding in his favor. She knows this. It has happened to her. In fact, Lou has discovered I am on the council and has sent two of his friends to my home already to try to influence me to end the council. This is why it is ok for the names to remain anonymous until it is completed.
Women’s Council Member #4 claims two of Louie’s friends were sent to her home to try to influence her to end the council, and that is why it is okay for their names to remain anonymous. But it is from this January 20, 2024 text message, Jennifer first learns woman #4 is on the council.
Jennifer sent a follow up text to Women’s Council Member #4 on Monday, January 22, 2024, 3:24 p.m. Quick FYI: Louis did not know you were on the council until I told him yesterday. He has no idea who could have come to your house on his behalf. Did those people tell you they were sent by Louis? . . .
Women’s Council Member #4 did not reply.
Sunday, January 21, 2024, 7:22 a.m. from Jennifer Willis to Women’s Council Member #4: Thank you for your response to my text. Please call me. I have questions for you.
You said some things in your message that I do not understand. My questions are about the process you are using, not about Louis.
I consider you my friend and hope the feeling is mutual.
8:54 a.m. Women’s Council Member #4: I am unable to talk today.
As far as the process goes for a women’s council. You know better than anyone that no matter how closely you fast and pray and follow the Lord's counsel and the counsel given in scripture, those not involved in the council question everything the women are doing.
We must trust and support each other, even when people do things in a manner we would not choose to do something, yet follows instruction in scripture.
I can assure you that while the women who organized this particular council may not be doing it the way you would, or even the way I might have organized it, they have been very prayerful about it. They have organized it using the scriptures we accepted as our guide to live by and when there was a difference between Denver’s advice in 2015 versus the Lord in the 2017 revelation now in scripture, they asked Denver to clarify and he told them to follow the scriptures.
He reiterated that advice again in his blog post the other day. And then cited us to go back and read the Aug 8, 2022 revelation from the Lord.
As I have prayed and pondered on their unique approach, I have seen the freedom and beauty in the Lord’s instructions.
Jennifer: Are you saying the 10 talks are not scripture?
Women’s Council Member #4: It appears the Lord is moving us along from a civilization that looks like our legal system today to a new civilization.
This is why the women organizing it asked Denver why the discrepancy between his ten talks and the Lord’s revelation. And his answer was for them to follow the scriptures. I guess we should be asking the Lord why.
Which, btw, threw a wrench into your first council. You were following the ten talks and then the answer to prayer for covenant came out a day before your first council. And you asked the Lord how you could follow His new instructions. And you saw that His hand was in it and how you’d unknowingly followed instruction you didn’t even know would be coming.
Each and every single situation we are faced with will be challenging and unique.
Jennifer: So what you’re saying is to disregard all of the Lord’s words given in the 10 talks?
Women’s Council Member #4: If you’d followed with exactness the advice on women’s councils in the ten talks, then [2019 women’s council] is illegitimate as he chose to not attend in an attempt to keep it from happening [Jennifer Willis participated in the 2019 council, but it was called and conducted by some of the women on Louie’s 2024 council]
The council for [another women’s council she participated in] would be illegitimate as he stated the women have no authority and refused to attend, in an attempt to keep it from happening.
I CAN NOT tell you any of what is happening in this council. I can say that I feel confident in the proceedings.
I am babysitting grandkids and will be turning my time and attention now to them.
you of all women, knows what it is like to receive criticism in the way you did [2017] council. I ask you to please have charity and grace for these women and the difficult task they have been willing to be courageous enough to attempt.
As for your question. Are the ten talks scripture? No. They were not canonized or voted on by the people as scripture.
Are there words from the Lord wishing them. Hell yes!
Did the women in their confusion go to Denver because of what they saw as a discrepancy? Yes. What was Denver’s advice? The scriptures which were voted on and accepted by the people and which the Lord has approved as His, are what they should use to guide them.
Also, since you are not on the council and therefore should not know who is on it or how it is being organized, have no idea what has been done to be fair and charitable to the man in question. Just like only those involved in [2017] actual council know all the details. I still receive judgment and criticism from others regarding that council and I just have to smile and say, you don’t know what I know.
Jennifer: [2019 council] was held at a general conference. Is there a general conference that I’m unaware of? Are you part of his home fellowship?
My family is Louis’s home fellowship. We meet with him on a weekly basis. Why isn’t the council being held in Louis’s home fellowship?
Women’s Council Member #4: It is with those whom he fellowships with.
I called you three months ago [she actually called me in August 2023] to tell you Lou’s dad had died. At that time you told me you had not spoken to him in a year. If he’s just recently begun meeting with you, he is also still meeting with many of the women on the council.
I have other things I need to focus on today. I won’t be answering any more texts.
Jennifer: Since the beginning of September we have been meeting with Louis on a regular basis. I have pictures, time/date stamps, phone call logs, and journal entries to verify all of that. Who else is fellowshipping with Louis on a regular basis while he’s on the road and in Israel, Europe, Turkey?
Who claims to be part of Louis home fellowship? When was the last time they fellowshipped with Louis? How often do they fellowship with Louis?
Even though we all fellowship with each other, we are all not part of the same home fellowship. A home fellowship implies something consistent, ongoing.
I understand that home fellowships change from time to time because my fellowship has changed over time, but I have ample evidence to prove my claim of our family being Louis’s home fellowship for the last six months. Most importantly, Louis considers us his home fellowship.
Why can you not wait until Louis is back in the states at the general conference? It is only fair to give Louis sufficient time to come home and prepare for this women’s council conference and call witnesses on his behalf. I do not think I need to be part of the council if it is held at a general conference.
Would you want [your husband] or any of your sons-in-law’s to be treated the way you are treating Louis?
This is food for thought. You do not need to respond as you are busy.
Louis’s dad did not die three months ago. That would’ve put us at the end of October [Louie’s father died July 22, 2023].
Women’s Council Member #4: Ok
No Discrepancy Between 2015 & 2017 Revelations
The 2013-2014 (Ten Talks) were edited and recorded in 2015 (Preserving the Restoration). They are messages from above delivered by Denver Snuffer. The first revelation on women’s role in the priesthood is recorded in PTR.
Women’s Council Member #4 said 2015 revelation was Denver’s advice. This line of reasoning does not respect the entire body of teachings we have received on the topic to date. In T&C 157:57 the Lord refers to His previous words, “ I have told you that to remove authority to use priesthood . . .” Where did he tell us? It was in Preserving the Restoration. In the Answer to Prayer for Covenant the Lord is testifying the words in PTR are His words not Denver’s
When the Lord gives additional instruction, we do not have permission to disregard what He has previously given, unless He gives permission that is explicitly clear. The new information given 2017 gives us more direction, but it does not contradict what was given previously in Preserving the Restoration (see the Lord’s words cited below in Ten Talks & Answer to Prayer for Covenant).
The guidelines in canonized T&C 157:57 weren’t even followed. The council was not held in Louie’s home fellowship or in private at a general conference.
Email to Women on January 2024 Council
Sunday, January 21, 12:34 p.m. Jennifer Willis emailed four identified women's council members:
Since the names of the women's council are anonymous, please forward this email on to them. Thank you . . .
The Lord has condescended to give us scripture on women and the priesthood on three different occasions.
2022 Additional scripture was given to us by the Lord and posted on Denver’s blog on August 8, 2022. The Lord ends this revelation with “I have given what I have given to be followed, neither to be added to nor taken from, but to be your counsel and guide. Do as you are bidden and you will have peace in this troubled world, which will be your first reward.”
These are the scriptures the Lord has given thus far about removal of a man’s priesthood certificate.
Ten Talks [Preserving the Restoration]
“Sustaining is by women, and removing authority to act within a community or fellowship is likewise to be done by the vote of women. If a man’s worthiness to function is called into question, then a conference can be convened to deal with the question. In removing authority, at least two witnesses should speak against the accused, and he should be allowed to speak on his behalf and call upon such witnesses as he chooses. Men can be witnesses, but only women are allowed to vote. Removal should be by unanimous vote* of the women present, with at least 12 votes against a man to end his authority to act in the fellowship community. As for his family, he is free to do as he chooses, but he cannot act in the community until restored by the vote of a conference of that community. [*If a woman is present and cannot judge the matter she may abstain, and the vote of the remaining women, if unanimous and there are 12 votes, will be sufficient.” Footnote 1391] Preserving the Restoration, pg. 510-511
Answer to Prayer for Covenant
“...I have told you that to remove authority to use priesthood outside a man’s family requires a unanimous decision by twelve women. A council of twelve women must be convened, either in the man’s home fellowship among those who are acquainted with his daily walk, or in private at a general conference, also including among the twelve women from the conference those who are acquainted with his daily walk, so that no injustice results.” T&C 157:57
Questions:
“a conference can be convened to deal with the question.”
What is/was the date and time of the conference held on Louis's behalf?
Is he invited to attend the conference?
“at least two witnesses should speak against the accused”
Who are the witnesses speaking against the accused?
Does he have the opportunity to face his accusers?
“he should be allowed to speak on his behalf and call upon such witnesses as he chooses”
How can he speak if not allowed to attend?
Is he allowed to call witnesses?
Does the man and his witnesses have time to prepare and arrange their schedules, so they can also attend the conference
“Removal should be by unanimous vote of the women present.”
Are the women present at the conference?
Do they need to be real women with real names?
Would it be obvious to the man who the women are?
A council of twelve women must be convened, either in the man’s home fellowship among those who are acquainted with his daily walk, or in private at a general conference,
Who among the women of the council are part of Louis’s home fellowship? Louis is out of the country. Our family is currently Louis’s home fellowship and has been for the last six months. We fellowship with him on a weekly basis. We have abundant documentation to show this is the case. Louis also claims us as his home fellowship. Home fellowships change as life shifts our circumstances. Many of us fellowship with each other, but we are not part of each other’s home fellowship. Who among you has an ongoing, weekly fellowship with Louis?
If you are not part of Louis’s home fellowship, are you willing to meet with him in private at a general conference?
What is scripture?
I’ve heard this idea from women on this council. Denver wrote in a recent blog post, “All of this is set out in our scriptures,” so we only need to follow canonized scripture. Are the canonized scriptures the only scriptures we have?
We chose what is in our “canonized scriptures”. Because the Lord allowed us to choose our canonized scripture and accepted our offering, is He saying we can ignore everything else He has revealed and will yet reveal. In our canonized scriptures, we are given this definition of scripture:
. . . And this is the example unto them that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the holy ghost. And whatever they shall speak, when moved upon by the holy ghost, shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation. Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O you my servants. T&C 55:1
We are well aware how T&C 175 was created, and it is set out in the first verse of the section. The committee used scripture (the word of the Lord) to write this document. They did not include all the Lord has given us. The Statement of Principles was a brief summary. In the endnotes, they reference the source of the material. It should point the reader to go back and read the revelation in its entirety.
We, as a covenant people, were commanded by God to develop a statement of principles to be used as a guide and standard. The following statement is the result of the contributions of many. As a people, we agreed to the following methodology in its creation: we confined ourselves to the words of the Lord as found in our canonized scriptures and given to his servants Joseph Smith Jr. and Denver Snuffer Jr. T&C 175:1
Because the committee chose to include some words of the Lord about women and the sustaining of the priesthood and leave out other words of the Lord, does not give us permission to ignore the Lord’s words that weren’t chosen by the committee.
When Denver points us toward the August 8, 2022 revelation, it shows the Lord is continuing to reveal scripture, even though it is not canonized.
Thank you for your time to consider this,
Jennifer Willis
To Be Continued . . .
[minor grammatical errors in original document are corrected in the text by Jennifer]
