The Record of Three - Heavenly Fathers (Part 6 of 6)

Heavenly Fathers

Joseph Smith taught that there are Fathers in Heaven. A friend of ours showed me this card. I asked him if I could have a copy of the card. Here is part of the email he sent me. [used with permission]

Joseph knew what he was saying. The LDS church used to give (and maybe still does) church office building employees a nicely bound gospel book each year. My step-father would pass along many of these to me as he was not too interested. Many years ago I kept the card that was included with one of the books because I liked the picture on the front and the quote within. It’s a quote of quotes:

My heart swells with gratitude inexpressible when I realize the great condescention of my heavenly Fathers, in opening the hearts of these, my beloved brethren to administer so liberally, to my wants and I ask God in the name of Jesus Christ, to multiply, blessings, without number upon their heads, and bless me with much wisdom and understanding, and dispose of me, to the best advantage, for my brethren, and the advancement of thy cause and Kingdom, and whether my days are many or few whether in life or in death I say in my heart, O Lord let me enjoy the society of such brethren. [emphasis added]

This quote can be found in the pen of Joseph Smith in his 1835-1836 Journal, as preserved in the JSP project here. Joseph wrote this verse after a number of brethren had come forward to pay off some of his debts (the ledger is included above the quote in the journal). All the LDS church references to this quote make Fathers singular, but you can clearly see JS wrote this word in the plural form when he originally wrote it. I’ve attached a photo of the card — impressively, the church history department stuck with the original “Fathers".

Original Version

1. That quote, the original version, was an entry in the JS Journal from Dec 9th, 1835. You can find it on page 118 of the JSP Journals Vol 1: 1832-1839.
2. That quote is NOT SEARCHABLE in the JSP project using the term “my heavenly Fathers” (or any variation of it using CAPS or lower case, with and without the comma, etc), try it here and see if it comes up…it doesn’t. You get 21 other references to “my heavenly father”. The only reason I knew of the existence of that quote was because of that card the Church History department gave to my step-dad. I honestly think, regardless of intent, that someone in the church has blocked the term “my heavenly fathers” from being searchable.
3. I don’t know all the details of how the Manuscript History of the Church was compiled, but I do know that there were 6 volumes and volume A-1 was completed prior to the death of JS and it is claimed he edited/reviewed it. However, that volume only went up through Aug 1834, over a year before this quote. Volume B-1 commenced in Oct 1843 and took several years to complete, I believe….and JS wasn’t around to oversee: "Though JS did not dictate or revise any of the text recorded in B-1, Willard Richards and Thomas Bullock chose to maintain the first-person, chronological narrative format established in A-1 as if JS were the author. They drew from a variety of primary and secondary sources including JS’s diaries and letters, minutes of meetings, the first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, church and other periodicals, reports of JS’s discourses, and the reminiscences and recollections of church members. As was the case with A-1, after JS’s death, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, George A. Smith, and others modified and corrected the manuscript as they reviewed material before its eventual publication.”
4. Now, look at this quote (just the first part) in the History B-1: "My heart swells with gratitude inexpressible, when I realize the great condesentions of my heavenly Father in opening the hearts of these my beloved brethren to administer so liberally to my wants…” There it is…changed!

I just find this to be an incredibly interesting quote that was either deliberately or carelessly changed by editors within a couple of years after the death of JS…one of many I’m sure. I wonder for every one gem like this how many others have been totally lost?

Anyway, the original quote conveys both Joseph's close relationships with his Fathers in Heaven and Christ, as well as the beautiful affections he had for his brethren….a fellowship above and a fellowship below. It’s a treasure.

Conclusion

I believe the Doctrine of Christ is the path of ascension. It teaches me who I am and how to follow in the footsteps of my Father. The Father bears record of the Son and the Son bears record of the Father; but they do not bear record of the Holy Ghost because it is still in a state of probation. The Holy Ghost bears record of the Father and the Son by following in the footsteps of the Son, doing His works, thus glorifying the Father and the Son.

I see there is still much for me to learn about the eleven verses in 3 Nephi 11:31-41.

The Record of Three - Sons of God (Part 5 of 6)

Sons of God

Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am; And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world; And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one— D&C 93:1-3

What are we to understand by these verses?

The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men. D&C 93:4

Why is the Lord called the Father? Why is the Lord called the Son? Who are the sons of men?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14

. . . the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just . . Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— D&C 76:50,58

Who are the sons of God?

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time. Moses 6:57

Why the name of his Only Begotten the Son of Man? Can I be a son of God and a son of Man?

I've color coded the next several verses to show the connection between God's path and my path. [emphasis added throughout this entire post]

Eternal Joy

What is the Father? He is a personage of spirit, glory, and power. What is man? Man is spirit. What is eternal? The Father is eternal. The elements are also eternal. Why does God raise up man? For the enjoyment of himself. Why are the spirit and element inseparably connected? To receive a fulness of joy. What is a fulness of joy? What does this say about me? How am I receiving joy?

They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: Lecture 5:2

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Articles of Faith 1:1

For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy. D&C 93:33-34

and that when God would undertake to raise up men for the enjoyment of himself Lecture 7:6

Personage of Tabernacle

What is the Son? First, he is a personage of tabernacle. Secondly, he was made or fashioned like unto man. Thirdly, he is also in the likeness of the personage of the Father. What is man? The tabernacle of God. Since the elements are the tabernacle of God and man is the tabernacle of God, what is the relationship between the elements and man and God?

The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: Lecture 5:2

The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple. D&C 93:35

Spirit of Truth

The Lord is the spirit of truth. But He tells me that I am also that which is Spirit, even the spirit of truth. Truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come. The Holy Ghost knows more than the whole world, and it dwells in me. How does the Holy Ghost manifest the works of the Father and the Son? How does the Holy Ghost bear record of the Father and the Son?

I [Lord] was in the world and received of my Father, and the works of him were plainly manifest. And John saw and bore record of the fulness of my glory, and the fulness of John’s record is hereafter to be revealed. And he bore record, saying: I saw his glory, that he was in the beginning, before the world was; Therefore, in the beginning the Word was, for he was the Word, even the messenger of salvation— The light and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men. The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him. D&C 93:5-10

What does it mean “all things were made by him, and through him, and of him”? What is given to abide in me that gives me all truth, knowledge, and power?

Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come; And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning. D&C 93:23-25

But I am learned & know more than the whole world, the Holy Ghost does any how, & I will associate myself with it. The Words of Joseph Smith compiled and edited by Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, p 345

Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment. Moses 6:61

The Lord received not of a fulness at first but continued from grace for grace and until he received a fulness of the glory of the Father. If I keep His commandments, I shall also continue from grace for grace until I receive of a fulness of the glory of the Father. Because sons receive not of a fulness at the first is why they are called sons of God.

And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace; And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness; And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son. And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father; And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him. And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John. D&C 93:11-18

If I am faithful, will I see what John saw? Will I see the heavens opened?

I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness. For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace. D&C 93:19-20

Firstborns, Begotten Sons, and Glory

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Hebrews 11:17-19 [emphasis added]

Begotten: Procreated; generated.

Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham:And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations . . . Genesis 25:12-13

Is Isaac Abraham's only son born to him in the flesh? What does it mean to be begotten? Why is Isaac Abraham's only begotten son? Why isn't Ishmael a begotten son?

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. D&C 76:23-24

What does it mean to be an only begotten? The Lord is the only begotten and the Firstborn; there is also a whole church of Firstborns and begotten sons, and they are partakers of the same glory as the only begotten, firstborn son. The Lord was in the beginning with the Father. I was also in the beginning with the Father.

And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us. D&C 93:11

And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn; And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn. Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; D&C 93:21-23

Truth, Light, and Intelligence

The Lord is the Spirit of truth. But He tells me that I am also the Spirit of truth. How do I receive a fulness of truth? How am I glorified in truth? How can I know all things?

The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth; And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments. He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things. D&C 93:26-28

Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— D&C 130:18-20

How is man coequal with God?

Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation. D&C 93:29-32

The soul the mind of man, whare did it come from? The learned says God made it in the beginning, but it is not so, I know better God has told me so. If you don’t believe it, it wont make the truth without effect, God was a self exhisting being, man exhists upon the same principle. God made a tabernacle & put a spirit in it and it became a Human soul, man exhisted in spirit & mind coequal with God himself The Words of Joseph Smith: compiled and edited by Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, p. 345- 346

I might say God never had power to create the spirit of man, God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is Eternal & it is self exhisting, All mind that is susseptible of improvement, the relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. God has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences that thay may be exhalted with himself this is good d doctrin, it taste good, I can taste the principles of eternal life,so can you, they are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ and I know you believe it. All things that God sees fit to reveal to us in relation to us, reveals his commandments to our spirits,and in saving our spirits we save the body, the same as though we had no Body. ibid

How do I grow in intelligence? How do I receive more light? Why am I under condemnation if my spirit does not receive greater light?

That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. Doctrine and Covenants 50:24

Why is the glory of God light and truth? How is God glorified through His sons? How does God grow in light and truth? How do sons of God grow in light and truth? Why is God more intelligent than they all?

For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Moses 1:39

The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth. Light and truth forsake that evil one. Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God. D&C 93:36-38

Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal. And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. Abraham 3:18-19

Light of the World

I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. 3 Nephi 9:18

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:13-16

Saviors of Men

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10

But verily I say unto you, that I have decreed a decree which my people shall realize, inasmuch as they hearken from this very hour unto the counsel which I, the Lord their God, shall give unto them. Behold they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour. And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given unto the saints, to possess it forever and ever. But inasmuch as they keep not my commandments, and hearken not to observe all my words, the kingdoms of the world shall prevail against them. For they were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the saviors of men; And inasmuch as they are not the saviors of men, they are as salt that has lost its savor, and is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men. D&C 103:5-10[emphasis added]

What does it mean when God decrees a degree? What am I to realize? Why must I hearken to the counsel of my Lord my God? If I hearken to God what will begin to happen? Whose enemies? Do I glorify my God by prevailing against His enemies? If I hearken to observe all the words which the Lord speaks to me, what will happen to the kingdoms of the world? When the Lord decrees it, is there anything except my disobedience that can stop it? How can I be a light unto the world? How can I be a savior of men?

Yea, and from that time even until now, I have labored without ceasing, that I might bring souls unto repentance; that I might bring them to taste of the exceeding joy of which I did taste; that they might also be born of God, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. Yea, and now behold, O my son, the Lord doth give me exceedingly great joy in the fruit of my labors; For because of the word which he has imparted unto me, behold, many have been born of God, and have tasted as I have tasted, and have seen eye to eye as I have seen; therefore they do know of these things of which I have spoken, as I do know; and the knowledge which I have is of God. Alma 36:24-26

Christs

What is another name for Christ? When the Lord anoints me, do I become a Christ? Is this what it means to take upon me the name of Christ?

CHRIST: THE ANOINTED; an appellation given to the Savior of the World, and synonymous with the Hebrew Messiah. It was a custom of antiquity to consecrate persons to the sacerdotal and regal offices by anointing them with oil.

What does it mean to called by the name of Christ? Are the children of Christ also Christ's or Christs? Am I born again when I become His daughter? Am I willing to enter into a covenant with our God to do his will, and to be obedient to his commandments in all things that he shall command me, all the remainder of my days? Is this part of being endowed with power from on high? Where is the name of Christ written?

And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters. And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.

And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for he shall be called by the name of Christ. And now it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall not take upon him the name of Christ must be called by some other name; therefore, he findeth himself on the left hand of God

And I would that ye should remember also, that this is the name that I said I should give unto you that never should be blotted out, except it be through transgression; therefore, take heed that ye do not transgress, that the name be not blotted out of your hearts. I say unto you, I would that ye should remember to retain the name written always in your hearts, that ye are not found on the left hand of God, but that ye hear and know the voice by which ye shall be called, and also, the name by which he shall call you. Mosiah 5:7-12 [emphasis added]

What does all this say about those who follow their Lord and Savior?

The Record of Three - Who is the Holy Ghost? (Part 4 of 6)

Who is the Holy Ghost?

The Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

If the Holy Ghost is a “personage of Spirit” and it can “dwell in us,” and the Holy Spirit is “the mind of the Father and Son” then are they the same thing?

The scriptures have explained that the “Holy Ghost” which dwells in you – this personage of Spirit – has the following other descriptions, or attributes:

-the Comforter
-the record of heaven
-the truth of all things
-the peacable things of immortal glory
-that which quickeneth all things
-that which knoweth all things
-that which has all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice and judgment.
(Moses 6: 61.)

This is a description of the personage of Spirit which dwells inside you. This is the Holy Ghost. This is something that can be in contact with the Holy Spirit, or the “mind of the Father and Son.” Denver Snuffer Blog August 10, 2012

Who is this personage of spirit that dwells in us? Is this our spirit made holy? In other words, is this our Holy Ghost? Do I need the Holy Ghost so that I can be in contact with the Holy Spirit?

If you stay connected to me, and my words live in you, you will ask according to my will, and you will be given the ability to accomplish my will. It will please and vindicate my Father if you produce abundant fruit, and that will prove you follow me. Just like the Father has loved me, I have in turn likewise loved you. Therefore, remain connected with me and my love will be with you. If you practice my teachings you will always remain connected with me; just as I have kept my Father’s teachings and have remain connected with him. Testimony of John page 24

With whom am I to remain connected? What are these words that live in me? Do His words reveal His will to me? By exercising faith in His words, am I enabled to do His will? How does it vindicate the Father if I produce abundant fruit? How will the production of abundant fruit prove I follow Jesus? What did Jesus's Father do for Him? What does Jesus do for me? Why must I remain connected to Jesus to have His love with me? What is the significance of having Jesus's love with me? Is love the source of His power? When I practice His teachings, am I learning to be like the one who has mastered His teachings? How does practicing His teachings keep me connected with Him?

One: Single by union; undivided; the same. Single in kind; the same. It also denotes union, a united body.

Connect: To knit or link together; to tie or fasten together, as by something intervening, or by weaving, winding or twining. Hence, To join or unite; to conjoin, in almost any manner, either by junction, by any intervening means, or by order and relation. To join, unite or cohere; to have a close relation.

Is being connected the same thing as being one? Why is it that many problems in our world are caused by a lack of connection? Is God the only one who can fill this empty hole in me? Is this why I must connect with Him?

The Holy Ghost is the “record of heaven” which lives inside you and that you have lost contact with because of the veil. It is a personage of spirit who resides inside you, and you must “receive” it after baptism by finally listening to that inner “truth of all things” or “record of the Father and the Son.” (Moses 6: 61, 66.) Denver Snuffer Blog August 28, 2010

What did we have contact with before we received a veil? Did we loose contact with our Holy Ghost when we were born and received a fleshy tabernacle? What is the veil?

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Hebrews 10:20

Is the record of the Father and the Son inside me because I have received the Holy Ghost? Is this what enables me to bear record of the Father and the Son?

The Holy Ghost bears record of the Son. When the Son speaks to you through the Holy Ghost you hear the words in the first-person. Hence the Holy Ghost speaking that it “is the Son” in Moses 5: 9. ibid

And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will. Moses 5:9

What does this mean? Why would the Holy Ghost speak to me in first person if it wasn't about me? Why would the Holy Ghost say, “ I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning.” Does this mean I am the Only Begotten of the Father? Or is the Son introducing Himself as the Only Begotten of the Father? What does it mean to be begotten of the Father? Can there be more than one “Only Begotten of the Father”?

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245

Who is in a state of probation? What course is the Holy Ghost invited to follow?

And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation. 1 Nephi 15:32 [emphasis added]

I have spoken these few words unto you all, my sons, in the last days of my probation; and I have chosen the good part, according to the words of the prophet. And I have none other object save it be the everlasting welfare of your souls. Amen. 2 Nephi 2:30 [emphasis added]

But wo unto him that has the law given, yea, that has all the commandments of God, like unto us, and that transgresseth them, and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state! 2 Nephi 9:27 [emphasis added]

I also have charity for the Gentiles. But behold, for none of these can I hope except they shall be reconciled unto Christ, and enter into the narrow gate, and walk in the strait path which leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation. 2 Nephi 33:9 [emphasis added]

What does this say about me? What must I do in the days of my probation?

The Record of Three - Who is the Son? (Part 3 of 6)

Who is the Son?

When God condescends and comes to earth to take on a tabernacle of flesh, he is called the son of God. When God is in Heaven in spirit, glory, and power, He is called the Father. Are there any scriptures where the son of God is in Heaven? Where does God the Father dwell? Is the character of the son of God represented by what God does here on earth? Is the character of the Father represented by the spirit, glory, and power that God has in heaven?

The best explanation I've found on this topic is in Mosiah 15.

And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father. Mosiah 15:1-7 [emphasis added]

Here are a few more references:

And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. 1 Nephi 11:18 [emphasis added]

Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me. Alma 7:13 [emphasis added]

Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given. 3 Nephi 1:14 [emphasis added]

In John 14 we read:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:6-14

What does this means “from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him”? Who dwells inside Jesus's fleshy tabernacle? Does His Holy Spirit or His Holy Ghost dwell inside His fleshy tabernacle? Or is the spirit of another Being dwelling in Him?

When Christ says that no man “comes unto the Father but by [Him]”, this implicitly means that Christ will at some point take you to His Father.

I pray to the Father in the name of the Son. In my mind I think of the Father. I let heaven speak to my heart concerning that name-title and I do not presume to have the right to tell anyone what comes into my mind. I also thank the Father for the sacrifice of His Son.

I would add that “El” is singular. “Elohim” is plural. In Abraham 3, there is a group identified as “the noble and great.” The noble and great are the “we” who are to prove “them.” This is in Abraham 3.

When the matter is settled, in chapter 4 of Abraham, that “we” or “the noble and great” commence the creation, and that group throughout Abraham 4 are continually referred to as “the Gods.” The English term “the Gods” captures the same idea as the Hebrew word “Elohim.”

If you have not read The First Three Words of the Endowment, you may want to do so. ** 

_________________________________________________

It would be an astonishing, but not completely unprecedented, if one of the “sons of God” were to fall away. Were that to happen, the heavens would weep over him.
__________________________________________________

When Christ promised not to leave us “comfortless”, he added that “my Father will love him, and we come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:23). Joseph Smith added “the appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old secterian notion, and is false.” (D&C 130: 3).

Joseph affirms he “saw two Personages.”

It is more important that you come unto Christ and you allow Him to teach you these things. Pray to the Father in His name, ask Him, listen to Him. It is Christ alone who is responsible for the salvation of each of us. Read the scriptures carefully. In fact, if you will pray and study your scriptures diligently, He will open up to your mind the meaning of the more mysterious passages and use the words of the Prophets found in our scriptures to answer your questions. Do much more of that. There is no man who is a substitute for Jesus Christ.**

**[There is nothing inconsistent in these two statements. If you can’t understand it, it is because you will not ask and allow God to enlighten your mind. Remember, I am not trying to get you to understand what I understand. I am trying to get you to open your heart, your mind; look to heaven for guidance and get answers to anything you don’t understand.] Denver Snuffer September 21, 2012

Was there anything correct in the idea of a trinity? How did this teaching even get started? Did it come from men attempting to explain the mysteries without understanding them? Why must I look to heaven for guidance? Why is the trinity an incorrect view of God? Denver in speaking of the trinity said,

Christ lost His body of “flesh and bone” in the Council of Nicaea when He became “homoousios” (of one substance with the Father) instead of “homoios” (distinct from, but like the Father). And thus the Son of Man (Mark 14:21; Matt. 26:24; Luke 22:22; John 3:13–among many others), as Christ identified Himself, was transformed by the arguments of men into something altogether “other” from those who descended from Adam. With that development in 325 a.d., the “Trinity” sprang into existence as a fundamental belief of Historic Christianity. This dramatic departure in the definition of God really marks the departure of the original or “Primitive Christianity” from the later “Historic Christianity” which replaced the original.

Fishermen and laborers who saw Christ and testified and described Him as a man, were shunned in favor of the philosophies of men who had not seen Him. But the philosophers controlled Christianity, and could dictate all of its terms.

The newly re-created image was unlike man, thus causing a contradiction between God’s original description of Himself. (Compare Genesis 1:26.) Indeed, how two beings could be one renders Christ “incomprehensible.” This admission was added by another council which adopted the Athanasian Creed, which states in part:

That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. Denver Snuffer Blog November 22, 2016

Jesus is our Father. Jesus has a Father. His Father, Father Ahman, bears record of Him. Each scripture must be read in context to determine which Father it is being referenced. Denver clarifies that when His Father witnessed it, it did not come from “inside Jesus”.

On the other hand, I do believe in Jesus Christ. Not in the sense that He’s everywhere and nowhere, but that He at one time occupied an actual manger on the evening of His birth. He was baptized in water by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. His Father witnessed it; not from “inside Jesus” because they were comingled; instead the Father (a separate Being occupying a separate location) looked down, saw His Son baptized, and then sent a sign to testify of the Son while speaking in a voice heard by John the Baptist. I believe in Jesus who was crucified, died, was laid to rest in a borrowed tomb, and then rose from the dead. I believe in the man whose body was torn and had the prints of nails in His hands and feet, and who then returned to life. I believe in that Jesus. He showed those hands to 11 surviving Apostles and then to a crowd gathered in the Americas. All of them touched His physical, wounded hands. I believe in Him. Because of my belief in Him, I have done whatever I have come to understand He wanted from me. As a result, I have obtained faith in Him. Moreover, because of the things I have offered in obedience to Him, and by making an acceptable sacrifice, and enduring what others apparently are not willing in this day to endure, I know Him. I know His hands have wounds, His arms are open to welcome those who will come to Him, and He embraces those whom He saves. He is not a God of the dead or the distant, but the God of the Living. Real. Tangible. Resurrected and living now. Denver Snuffer Blog May 9, 2012

The Son stands ready watching for every communication from His Father. The son does the will of the Father.

The Record of Three - Who is the Father? (Part 2 of 6)

Who is the Father?

Christ the Father

After Christ redeems the brother of Jared from the fall (Ether 3:13), He explains to the brother of Jared the doctrine of Christ’s Fatherhood. The doctrine is simple. It is an elaboration on what Christ taught in the New Testament.

Here is the doctrine: “Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.” (Ether 3:14). In other words, because of our sins and the fall we have experienced, our relationship as sons and daughters of the Father cannot be restored without an intermediary who is willing to cleanse us and to accept us as His son.

This is what Jesus had reference to in John 14:6 when He declared: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” If you find yourself in the circumstance that a voice from heaven declares unto you that you are a son of God because this day He has begotten you (Psalms 2:7) that voice will be Christ’s, your Father will be Christ, and you will understand that Christ is the Father and the Son. Denver Snuffer Blog September 19, 2012 [emphasis added]

Ether’s Reference to Christ as Father

. . . The “Father” of your eternal life will be Christ. (D&C 35: 2.) He is your Father who is in heaven, because your continuation after the grave will come through His sacrifice. He will literally provide you with the resurrected body you will inherit. This makes Him the Father. (See Mosiah 5: 7.)

Secondly, they are His teachings which will provide you with more than just resurrection. He will provide the further possibility of glory to you on the conditions He has made possible through obedience to Him. The one you follow, whose teachings you accept, whose ordinances you accept, is also your Father. (1 Cor. 4: 15.) The role of the Father is to raise His seed in righteousness. Christ’s teachings are given in His capacity of a Father to all who will follow Him. Through His teachings you can have a new life here and now. You can be “born again” as His seed. (1 Peter 1: 23.) To do that you must first accept His role as your Father/guide. Then you must further accept His role as Father/Redeemer. When you do that, He gives you a new life by His teachings and new life by His ordinances.

Here, excluded from the presence of Heavenly Father Ahman, we have no way back except through Christ. (Mosiah 3: 12.) (For the name “Ahman” see D&C 78: 20 where Christ mentions His Father’s name.) He must become our Father to bring us back again into the Ahman’s presence. Christ visits here. Christ labored here, lived among us, ministers still among us, and though resurrected still walked alongside two of His disciples. He appeared in an upper room, cooked and ate fish on the lake’s shore, and appeared to many. He will come to dwell here again. The Father Ahman, however, only appears in a state of glory, has not stood here since the Fall of Adam, and awaits the completion of the work of Christ before He will again take up His abode here.

Christ is not the same person as Father Ahman. Christ becomes the Father of all who are redeemed through Him. Therefore, by redeeming you Christ has become your Father in Heaven. You will have many fathers, including Christ, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and in our dispensation, Joseph Smith as well. And all these will also be children of Father Ahman. Denver Snuffer Blog February 27, 2012 [emphasis added]

If Father Ahman has not stood here since the Fall of Adam, and awaits the completion of the work of Christ before He will again take up His abode here. Then who did Joseph Smith see in his first vision? I went to bed with this question on my mind. I asked God to help me understand. The next morning I awoke with the idea to look up the definition of “personage”. I did not know there was a difference between a person and a personage until I looked up the definitions of these two words.

Person: An individual human being consisting of body and soul. A person is a thinking intelligent being.

Personage: Exterior appearance; stature; air; Character assumed. Character represented.

So what is the difference between a person and a personage? Could a person represent more than one personage. Could this help me understand the four different accounts of Joseph Smith's first vision? Could this help me understand “Father Ahman, however, only appears in a state of glory, has not stood here since the Fall of Adam, and awaits the completion of the work of Christ before He will again take up His abode here.”?

The four accounts can be found here. I have quoted the part where Joseph sees the Lord or two personages.

1. JS History, ca. Summer 1832, pp. 1–3. This is the earliest and most personal account, and the only one that includes Joseph Smith’s own handwriting.

. . . while in attitude of calling upon the Lord a piller of fire light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the spirit of god and the opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph thy sins are forgiven thee. go thy walk in my statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life . . .

2. JS, Journal, 9–11 Nov. 1835, pp. 23–24. Joseph Smith described his early visionary experiences to a visitor at his home in Kirtland, Ohio, in November 1835. His description was written down, and Warren Parrish later copied it into Joseph Smith’s journal.

I called on the Lord in mighty prayer, a pillar of fire appeared above my head, it presently rested down upon my head, and filled me with joy unspeakable, a personage appeard in the midst, of this pillar of flame which was spread all around, and yet nothing consumed, another personage soon appeard like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testifyed unto me that Jesus Christ is the son of God;

3. JS History, 1838–1856, vol. A-1, pp. 2–3. This best-known account of Joseph Smith’s first vision opened what was to become a six-volume history of his life. Copied by scribes into a large bound volume, this account was later canonized by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Pearl of Great Price.

I saw a pillar light exactly over my head above the brightness of the sun, which descended gracefully gradually untill it fell upon me. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two personages (whose brightness and glory defy all description) standing above me in the air. One of spake unto me calling me by name and said (pointing to the other) “This is my beloved Son, Hear him.”

4. JS, “Church History,” Times and Seasons, 1 Mar. 1842, 3:706–707. This brief history of the church, often referred to as the “Wentworth letter,” was prepared at the request of a Chicago newspaper editor. The extent of Joseph Smith’s involvement in writing it is not known, but it was published with his signature. This account borrowed language from Orson Pratt’s A[n] Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions (see below).

I retired to a secret place in a grove and began to call upon the Lord, while fervently en gaged in supplication my mind was taken away from the objects with which I was surrounded, and I was enwrapped in a heavenly vision and saw two glorious personages who exactly resembled each other in features, and likeness, surround ed with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noon-day. [empahsis added]

The Father is a personage of spirit, glory, and power. The son is a personage of tabernacle. You can even see these two personages in the first account. The Lord said “behold I am the Lord of glory [Father] I was crucifyed for the world [Son]” [emphasis added]. Did Joseph know something about the Godhead that I do not? Did he know the difference between a personage and a person? Did he understand the different roles God plays in his life? Does God “wear more than one hat”? Does the earliest account of Joseph's first vision contradict the other accounts, or is it two different ways of saying the same thing?

Godhead

What do we understand the Godhead to be? Does the Godhead consists of more than one person?

Lecture Second

1 Having shown in our previous lecture "faith itself—what it is," we shall proceed to show secondly the object on which it rests.

2 We here observe that God is the only supreme governor, and independent being, in whom all fulness and perfection dwells; who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life; and that in him every good gift, and every good principle dwells; and that he is the Father of lights: In him the principle of faith dwells independently; and he is the object in whom the faith of all other rational and accountable beings centers, for life and salvation. [emphasis added]

Who is the only supreme governor, and independent being, in whom all fulness and perfection dwells? Who is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life? In whom does the principle of faith dwells independently? Who is the object in whom the faith of all other rational and accountable beings centers, for life and salvation? Who is this describing? In whom am I commanded to have faith? Have I ever been instructed to have faith in the Father? Who is the object of my faith? Upon whom do I alone rely? Who is the author and finisher of my faith?

. . . For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ. Mosiah 3:12

And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith. Moroni 6:4

Who is the Father of lights? Who are the children of light?

The people who heard this asked him, When we consult the scriptures they claim that the Messiah will live forever. Why do you say the Son of Man must sacrifice his life? Who are you talking about? Then Jesus said to them, Only a little time remains for the light who is now here. Learn how to live while the light remains, otherwise darkness will overcome you. Without the light you will fall into error. While you are near the light, believe in the light, so that you can become the children of light. Jesus said this, abruptly departed, and then avoided them. [emphasis added] (John 12:36 newly revealed account of John the Beloved’s Testimony of Jesus the Messiah page 21)

And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters. Mosiah 5:7

Therefore let your light so shine before this people, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven. 3 Nephi 12:16

• I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. 3 Nephi 9:18

• Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed. 3 Nephi 18:24

Who is the light of the world? Who are the children of Christ? Are the children of light also the children of Christ? Is Christ the Father of lights?

Lecture Second Continued

3 In order to present this part of the subject in a clear and conspicuous point of light, it is necessary to go back and show the evidences which mankind have had, and the foundation on which these evidences are, or were based, since the creation, to believe in the existence of a God.

4 We do not mean those evidences which are manifested by the works of creation, which we daily behold with our natural eyes: we are sensible, that after a revelation of Jesus Christ, the works of creation, throughout their vast forms and varieties, clearly exhibit his eternal power and Godhead. Romans 1:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made: even his eternal power and Godhead. But we mean those evidences by which the first thoughts were suggested to the minds of men that there was a God who created all things.

5 We shall now proceed to examine the situation of man at his first creation. Moses, the historian, has given us the following account of him in the first chapter of the book of Genesis, beginning with the 20th verse, and closing with the 30th. We copy from the new translation:

6 And the Lord God said unto the Only Begotten, who was with him from the beginning, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and it was done.

Why does the Second Lecture on Faith say his eternal power and Godhead? Whose power? Whose Godhead? If the Godhead consists of two persons, then why isn't it their eternal power and Godhead? If the Godhead consists of two personages but one person, would it be correct to say his eternal power and Godhead? Is there a difference between Godhead and Head of the Household of Heaven?

Is it possible one Lord is represented by two personages? If a personage is a character represented, would the spirit, glory, and power of Lord Jehovah be represented by the personage of the Father? And would the tabernacle of Lord Jehovah be represented by the personage of the Son? Is this what Joseph saw in his first vision? Is this why he speaks of one Lord in the first account but two personages in the last three accounts? Why is it important to have a correct understanding of the Godhead?

Lecture Fifth

1 In our former lectures we treated of the being, character, perfections and attributes of God. What we mean by perfections, is, the perfections which belong to all the attributes of his nature. We shall, in this lecture speak of the Godhead: we mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2 There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—

Are we also a personage of spirit and a personage of tabernacle?